I work at OpenAI and I can try to explain our logic.
In general, LLM performance is incredibly multidimensional. There's no guarantee of a fixed ordering where the model that is best at math is also the model that's best at jokes. Despite that complexity, much of the variation in performance is explained by just a single variable: model size. In general, models that are bigger will (a) be more performant / reliable, (b) cost more per token, and (c) have better recall of esoteric facts. As you note, our models are ordered:
Luna < Terra < Sol < Astra
Even today, I'd recommend this as a general starting point for picking models. If you care about quality only, pick Astra. If you're a bit price sensitive, pick Sol. If you're very price sensitive, pick Terra or Luna.
Of course, model size doesn't capture all variation. Models that are trained later might have new data or new techniques or new architectures that earlier models lack. You can see this with models from all providers - Sonnet 5.5 outperforms Fable 5.1 in ways, and Gemini 3.8 Flash outperforms 3.1 Pro in ways.
In the case of GPT-6.1 Terra, I'd say Terra is probably better than Astra and Sol at technical communication, similar on vision and computer use (but much faster!), and a bit worse on most other things. For API developers, it's a nice midrange option if you want something cheaper than Sol but a lot smarter than Luna (especially for vision / computer use / communication). For subscribers, it's not a bombshell release - if you're hitting usage limits, maybe it helps you go a bit further, and if you want clearer communication or faster computer use, it can be a nice option to select.
If you have suggestions on how to name our products better, I'm all ears. Our intention is to make things clear and simple, even if we miss the mark sometimes.
Unfortunately, a lot of the complexity is somewhat irreducible and due to to the actual complexity of the products. Scaling model size is different from scaling reasoning effort which is different from scaling multi-agent count. So if we just swept all of those under a single name of "more IQ", it would make the naming simpler but the experience much worse, as important details would be obfuscated from end users.
Do you then recommend Sol for technical documentation?
What's confusing to me in addition to the naming is that there are no published guidelines I can use, as far as I can see. Put yourself in the user's shoes. On what basis should one pick a model for a given task?
I can understand smaller models being dumber and faster. That aligns well with scenarios where you are willing to compromise; e.g. you're classifying content or asking a model to format text into a table.
But when you want "maximum intelligence, cost and time be damned", there's the implication that bigger models are smarter on a linear scale, and every provider's model release naming is currently conflicting with that expectation.
This isn't just a naming problem, but a communication problem. If I knew that Astra was the best at coding but a bit bad at writing, and Sol was almost as smart but better at technical writing, then that's the kind of thing I expect to be documented.
One possible way: A simple matrix with horizontal columns like "writing", "coding", "math", rows are the models, and each box is a number of stars from 1-5.
Instead, this sort of thing becomes lore, shared by word of mouth.
> Do you then recommend Sol for technical documentation?
I don't know, to be honest. Technical documentation is such a multidimensional skill, and I also don't know your budget. I'd imagine Terra might have the most readable prose, but Astra might be more likely to catch bugs or mistakes to highlight. If the documentation is about a more esoteric language or situation, Astra might have a greater edge than if it's a common language or situation. If you have a long list of documentation guidelines, that might also give more of an edge to Astra. I wouldn't want to make a recommendation without doing a lot of testing, and I haven't done a lot of testing.
> Put yourself in the user's shoes. On what basis should one pick a model for a given task?
Create a realistic eval suite for your use case using your actual data that you manually label, with easier, more complex, rarer samples, and run each model you are considering against it and decide based on the usual confusion matrix, cost, latency, or whatever metrics matter to you. There's really no other way to know – and you might be surprised that cheaper models can often perform your task(s) relatively well at a fraction of the cost.
Humans cannot be in the loop for autonomous work. I have agents review code and design/architecture documents, write alert messages based on rules, write analyses (e.g. outage incidents), and many other things. "Having a person write words" would mean not using agents, defeating the whole point.
I do not use agents to write on behalf of myself. I write my won technical write-ups and my own slide presentations. A lot of people don't; and it shows. There's much that agents can do better than humans now, but not everything.
> I'm all ears. Our intention to make things clear and simple, even if we miss the mark sometimes.
Thanks. I think the very response you wrote here is a better form of marketing for the software engineers than what openAI puts out there. When everything is groundbreaking and everything tops charts, nothing is.
I suspect a lot of target demographic (developers) prefer simpler and honest communication about not just the models high points but low points too. With the linked Terra post, if I saw 1 chart that clearly highlighted the usecases for which Terra is _worse_ than higher tier models, I would be more convinced overall.
Everything trying to occupy the top spot in my brain's limited "top model" representation space is not helpful.
While I generally agree that it'd be nice to just have "here is the Pareto optimal model for your use case. Here is the specifics we optimized each model for" so users don't have to do benchmarking and research as much, they're getting much better.
The website linked starts out with:
> We’re introducing GPT-6.1 Terra, a fast, efficient model that combines detailed visual reasoning and precise computer use alongside clearer, more natural writing. A significant step up from GPT‑5.6 Terra, it excels at the communication and computer-based tasks that fill the workday, from drafting proposals and interpreting technical drawings to filling out forms and editing videos.
If you go father down, it has graphs and details with specifics of this, including:
> We measured GPT-6.1 Terra’s computer-use capabilities... At medium reasoning effort, GPT-6.1 Terra scores 15 percentage points higher than GPT-5.6 Terra at about one-third the cost. It even performs on par with GPT-6 Astra at only one-tenth its price per token.
and
> On MMMU-Pro... It even nearly matches the scores of our most capable frontier model, GPT-6 Astra, and GPT-6.1 Sol at much lower cost.
The 4-tier naming is honestly as clear as you can get. I have no idea what people are so confused about.
Terra and Luna are dirt cheap and good enough for 50% (or more) of the typical junior dev's workload, and great for routine work. Sol and Astra have so much written about them at this point that it should be obvious what those are good at. The large/gigantic models for things that need full intelligence and slightly more branching thinking.
The obnoxious/confusing thing is that models are released individually rather than as a family.
Luna < Terra < Sol < Astra, fine. But does Terra 6.1 beat Sol 6? Does Fable 5.1 beat Opus 5.5? If I build something around this Terra 6.1 release, then when Luna 6.2 is released in a month, should I swap?
I understand the confusion, but isn't this kind of similar to asking does the iPhone 14 Max beat the iPhone 16 Mini? At least with phones there are hard specs we can use to compare, but in a lot of cases the answer will be "it depends"
At least there is a simple system - the words 'Mini' and 'Max' are intended to refer to the size of the item (that one is miniature, and the other is their maximum size).
If they were called iPhone 14 Luna and iPhone 16 Sol then this is less clear.
Or on the flipside, if the models were called GPT 6.1 Mini and GPT 6.1 Max, nobody would be arguing about the names being hard to grok. The words 'mini' or 'small' are more descriptive than 'Luna' or 'Terra'.
Run your own evals then if you have this much of a need to "correctly" choose. That'll make it clear.
I'll just stick to mostly Sol on low/medium/high and start experimenting with Terra tomorrow onward to see what it does noticeably better than Luna/Deepseek flash.
Any pareto frontier model, especially from the leading labs is guarnateed to be good enough for whatever your expectations are at this point. A quick few day test should be enough for anyone to make their own conclusions.
Or I'm going to give up and not use any. Consumers aren't perfectly rational. This isn't like toothpaste, where, despite being overwhelmed at the store, I still need to brush my teeth so ahhhhhh fuckit and just pick a toothpaste out of the 30 available. The alternative is I keep using Google search and think AI is stupid. Or just use Facebook's thing.
What would you want to see instead? Not sure about you but my needs are specific enough that I don't think OAI has evals for them, and I wouldn't want to give them that data even if they wanted to run it for me.
- Understanding how effort and class interact (Is a high effort terra above a low effort Sol? Are larger models mostly always better regardless of effort?)
- understanding when (if ever) a new model tends to be better than an older but higher class one. Is an old astra better than a new terra?
If increasing effort and increasing model class produce improved results in a different way, I miss making it explicit in which way. In other words: What kind of issue warrants going up in effort? what kind of issue warrants going up in model class? What kind of issue is unlikely to be solved by either?
OpenAI itself cannot answer these questions. A prospective price-sensitive (or speed-sensitive) user has to experiment to find the cheapest (or fastest) model that is sufficient for each task.
I like to use OpenAI models for ingesting a customer brief, usually a paragraph or two and then a read of a several customer files (eg spreadsheets and docs etc) and turning it into a system design blueprint. I'm currently using Astra for this phase but it's incredibly expensive relative to the other tasks that come after this. Would you recommend I stick to Astra or can I downgrade to say Sol or Terra for this job?
I'm just worried the system design won't be as good if I choose a lesser model so to speak.
Internal evals are still running but GPT-6.1 Terra is an AWESOME release for anyone using the API in agentic production applications where cost matters.
Personally, I pretty much exclusively use claude for coding work (sorry!). Our application is running almost 100% on OpenAI API (except for some fallback models). It is the best API on the market. The models are excellent particularly for any application that is cost sensitive.
Since internally you probably have a fairly good intuition for what these models do well, what about assembling a benchmark suite (with multiple dimensions) that produces results that show that intuition, but in a 'somewhat objective' way?
That could solve the 'more IQ' problem, because you'd actually have different dimensions (e.g. for 'raw intelligence', technical writing, emotional understanding, etc) that you could use to communicate the differences in models better.
(Of course people would instantly start complaining that the benchmarks numbers are probably fake etc, but it is what it is.)
I actually do have a recommendation, which is to do something like a new mode (i know i know):
Auto xlow
Auto low
Auto med
Auto high
Auto xhigh
Auto max
With an optional flash mode.
Then as you release models, you pick the model and thinking level that you believe is pareto optimal for cost/performance.
So this auto updates each release, like Terra was probably off this list entirely, but maybe this would appear now in Auto medium or something like that.
I know from looking at charts that each model seems to have sweet spots (like I always use this model in this thinking level and if i want to go cheaper i go here). If you picked those for us, it would be interesting. I do think you should keep the model families for those wanting more consistent experiences, but for many devs they may want to just pick auto something and have it update over time. I think nice if it actually just said in parenthesis what it was, something like:
Auto Medium (Terra 6.1 High)
I am not sure if everyone would agree here though. I'm obivously advocating for more naming schemes, and i understand the irony.
This kind of heuristic is actually extremely useful - and mostly what I try to develop over a couple weeks as the new models come out. I would love if we could get a fairly standardized take like this on the regular.
Of course we have far too many benchmarks (of questionable utility), but it would be helpful to get OpenAI's take on where it slots in, and how the landscape changes as these get rolled out.
It’s probably just unavoidable. Like when Apple release a new MacBook Air first and it is (in some ways) faster than the old MacBook Pro.
I think the planets thing is a bit confusing though. I hadn’t really thought about it being based on the size of the planet. I assumed it was based on how far away they were with terra therefore being the base one.
Please can I ask about one parameter you didn't mention here? All of your models have both a reasoning effort setting and also a non-pro vs pro setting. I have some intuitive feel (from experimenting) for the difference a larger vs smaller model makes, and why that's different from adjusting reasoning levels, but I have no real feel for how pro vs non-pro is different in behaviour from adjusting effort.
I think you can think of Pro approximately as running multiple instances of a non-pro model, than giving all their outputs to a final judge model which combines them into a better one.
Appreciate that these things have orthogonal measurements; with that in mind, given that the name signifies size, what does version number signify?
I.e. are all version numbers independent and Model X 7.5 is not necessarily of the same generation or cut off as Model Y 7.5? Or do all of your 6.1 models have something in common - cut off data, generation, baseline technology, approach, architecture, or something else?
These days, version number signifies a few things at once: the order of release, the relationship to other releases, and the magnitude of improvement. So something like 6.1 would indicate it was launched after 5.6, may share some similarities to other 6.1 models in terms of training data / personality (which is why it's not 5.7), and isn't a giant enough leap to merit the headlines and expectations that would come with a 7.
Back in the day we used numbers to also sometimes indicate size, which could make it extra confusing: e.g., we launched GPT-4.1 (an incremental update on GPT-4) after GPT-4.5 (a new model that was a big jump over GPT-4).
> Models that are trained later might have new data or new techniques or new architectures that earlier models lack.
This seems like one of those cases, where CalVer would be appropriate, and you likely have ideas what you aim for while training, so technical model names (ids?) could include aliases to most things you said. Like
2026q4-xlarge-researcher, 2026q4-medium-humanitarian, 2026q4-medium-coder, 2027q1-small-analyst etc.
Straight up - why not just name them Cheapest, Cheaper, Expensive and More Expensive? Cost seems to be the main driver of the intuitive difference between models.
Same reason that Apple doesn't name its series of phones the iPhone cheap, iPhone regular, iPhone semi-expensive, and iPhone expensive. It's poor branding, isn't easily extended to future models, and gets confusing when comparing across model generations, where an iPhone 14 expensive might be cheaper than an iPhone 16 cheap.
I love the current naming scheme and I am excited to see the astronomy trend expand in the future. I hope to see asteroids, binary stars, and solar systems at some point soon, as well as neutron stars, black holes, and eventually galaxies, and clusters of galaxies.
It would be interesting to know which model is internally viewed as being best at jokes, I have a personal humor benchmark and so far models will either steal jokes (from comedians like Maria Bamford), or write something very unfunny.
When I was first learning to have agents interact I had a little script to orchestrate a model telling a joke, a critic collaborator helping develop material and an audience emoji rank them.
A favorite…
Prompt: “Tell a joke about mother in laws”
Gemma2 response: “What’s the best kind of mother in law? A dead one.” 0_o
> important details would be obfuscated from end users.
I don't expect the vast majority of your users care. I would guess they want a rough proxy for "cost" and will assume cost=>capability are roughly linked in a linear fashion.
it is very possible that the users weighted by spend do, and I'm therefore simply wrong. But, 2c
My guess is nothing, and they're currently just releasing them individually as soon they're ready instead of all at once so that they hit the market more quickly. AI moves quickly enough that a delay of a couple weeks could result in significant lost revenue.
Lower models typically use distilled outputs from higher model to improve .
all training runs have to at some level share the compute capacity ; while they have more than enough to run many large runs concurrently, they don’t have enough compute to run everything concurrently.
> I work at OpenAI and I can try to explain our logic [...] general, models that are bigger will be more performant.
> If you have suggestions on how to name our products better, I'm all ears. Our intention is to make things clear and simple, even if we miss the mark sometimes.
How about naming the models:
"Small", "Medium", "Large" and "Very Large"
Or refer to them by parameter count like other companies (e.g. this is 6.1 5T)
If I have a clothing store, and rather than name the clothes sizes Small, Medium and Large I decide to call them Urgon, Planfar and Fangor I shouldn't be surprised if people think my size naming is confusing or silly. And IMO it's not a great explanation to say "oh it's easy, if you are skinny then you should get Urgon, but then if you are a bit more of a medium build you should get a Planfar, but if you want something a bit baggier than Fangor will really work out for you"
The problem with small, medium, large naming is that they don't last. In a few years our names would have to advance to labels like giant, behemoth, gargantua. This is different than clothing, where we know that in five years humans will be most the same size as today.
As a point of comparison, GPT-3 was launched in a series of small, medium, large, and XL. Back then, XL meant a mere 1.3 billion parameters!
This is kind of like Apple with the iPhone. You need 3 model products max. 3 is easily understood and people can be bothered (if they care) to track the difference. More than 3 is a mix of being redolent of ADHD (viz bad PR) while also being annoying for consumers to track the difference.
I can’t tell you the difference between the 10 different versions of the current iPhone and I can’t you the difference between the 5-6 different models put out by the Anthropics/OpenAIs of the world. At this point I just try to track the flagship and then the cheapest one or worst case I just use the flagship.
I’m sure internally there’s data showing people want choice and options but decision fatigue is of course very real.
Very fair. There's always a tradeoff in the number of products, and it's hard to make everyone happy. My suspicion is that the optimal number is probably a bit higher for developers on our API (who often build their own internal evals) than for individual users (who don't want to waste time re-optimizing every month). We're excited by Terra's uniquely fast computer use, but if it traction is poor, maybe we'll go back to 3. It all depends on the market signal - we only want to ship models people find uniquely useful.
I promise you this would become a giant mess. No one wants to pick GPT-good-at-writing-but-not-in-documents-and-decent-at-instruction-following-but-has-some-known-quirks-to-be-aware-of-p.s.-good-at-knock-knock-jokes-MAY-2027.
Even "writing" as a single concept is very multidimensional. There's fiction writing, nonfiction for experts, nonfiction for learners, deep research, quick lookup Q&A, copyediting, writing in documents / artifacts, instruction following about style, and default quirks (e.g., em dashes, negation, loving the word "tapestry"). Some models are great writers but less diverse, meaning people prefer the first story they read but disprefer the tenth. How does one label such a model?
> If you have suggestions on how to name our products better, I'm all ears.
For some reason, this is just hilarious to me. Idk if you're being serious or if this is passive aggressive but the thought of OAI actually taking advice from a random HNer and basing their naming scheme off that is peak.
This is one of the last bastions of semi-serious discussion on the internet, and it's full of incredibly high level engineering talent.
Where else would you go? I'm honestly scratching my head thinking of someplace that wouldn't run you out on a rail, but that would give serious feedback. Kernel mailing lists are out, maybe there's something like that which I can't remember off the top of my head, but...
Also, nomenclature is incredibly hard. There are only two hard problems in computer science: cache expiration and naming things.
But regular people are not the consumers of OpenAI's API - they consume "Chatgpt" and don't care about model nomenclature.
The primary users of any API are the designers and engineers of the applications that use it. How many laypeople know what Postgresql is? How many of the applications they use run on it?
I don't understand what's so confusing about this.
The lineup of models is still the same.
There are four models: luna, terra, sol, and astra.
Pricing increases for each level. This new 6.1 Terra is 50% cheaper than Sol 6.1.
They are lowering prices for newer releases, so yes if you compare Sol 6.1 to 5.6 Terra it won't look right, but why are you doing that? Look at the same release version for comparable numbers.
Each model improves in successive releases but they maintain pricing and capability coherency within a release version.
Yes, Sol 6.1 is supposed to rival Astra for some work, which is what you'd expect from a later versioned release model against a prior release bigger model.
Assuming they release Astra 6.1 at some point, I expect it'll be better than Sol 6.1, at a higher price.
I don't understand what people are asking for here? No reductions in pricing? Different model names on every version release? Not releasing any models for a version number until they're all ready?
Hey! I think it's confusing because there is a mix of three components:
- Model name
- Version number
- Effort level
All 3 of these are a one-dimensional balance of price/speed, and capability (Loose terms). The confusion is in how these overlap, how they're announced/marketed etc. So you go from 1 dimensions to 3; you can visualize it as a box. For a given task, how do you choose where in this box you select? Which regions are your favorite? Can you map each region of this 3D space to specific tasks? Label them with intuitive names?
Given the operations of the model are opaque, can you see how someone (most people?) might be confused?
But what's the ask? This is the cleanest way I see of them doing it.
I see a ton of criticism and not a single person coming up with anything better, unless it's to take away options, like removing effort level.
What about buying Intel CPUs? A car? Electrical components?
If you're not just using this at a consumer level to ask about cooking recipes (and if that's your use case, you really don't care about API pricing, or any of this, and can just use the default), and are using it professionally, then this seems like a low bar of effort to understand what you're buying.
I do grant you the relationship between model and effort level has an unclear relationship, but there are also tradeoffs in most complex technical products that are not always clear; this is exacerbated by the fact that this product is stochastic.
Why are engineers using this as a professional tool expecting this to be bought like a consumer gadget and then blaming the maker?
“The ask” is give me a clue how to choose the best settings for a specific task. Model releases happen so often that the calculation keeps changing. Maybe even OpenAI doesn’t always know the answer.
This morning I asked GPT which models and settings I should use to inspect my VM dashboard with computer control. It said:
- GPT-6 Astra at Medium
- GPT-6.1 Sol at Medium (alt)
- use Luna only when the route was already known.
But I had already completed the task twice with Luna and it was 5.6! It navigated through a few pages of my dashboard, pulled up the 30-day usage chart, analyzed my CPU and RAM, and explained why I didn’t need an upgrade. I’d give Luna 5.6 an A on this task.
Maybe OpenAI should give us a “Tiptronic” selector: recommend the model and reasoning level based on the prompt, while still letting users override it.
You are showing a selection from some third-party interface that mixes together models from six different suppliers: Mistral, Kimi, OpenAI, xAI, Anthropic and Google, with a bunch of old obsolete models.
Are you presenting this as evidence that OpenAI's naming scheme is bad?
If you don't want to spend the time to know the difference between all these different suppliers and their models, then why are you using whatever this program is that gives you so many choices, most of which are bad? Why is this OpenAI's fault?
The OpenAI employee above says that some smaller models of the same generation are better at certain tasks than larger models, regardless of cost difference.
They should have a guide saying "Terra is best at technical documentation and communication, Astra is best at large software projects and research, Sol is good for development" or something like that.
Effort (as it's used in the context, how many "thinking" tokens to burn) is still a free variable. It's not always shown to the end user but you can set it independently for any of these models.
After that you just have model "strength" and version number. But of course strength is only comparable at equal version number and the two axes are almost parallel.
Anthropic also does this, perhaps to a lesser extent.
It's confusing because the models are released one at a time rather than as a family.
Let's say I have some task that Luna 6.1 cannot do, but Terra 6.1 can. So I build my product around that. In a month when Luna 6.2 is released, then I have to figure out whether it's worth to evaluate and swap or just wait for Terra 6.2.
Part of the confusion is that it's not linear capabilities. One model is not strictly "better" than the other. They have orthogonal capabilities.
I think the names are more of a reference to price. Luna is always cheaper than terra which is cheaper than Sol which is cheaper than Astra (for the same model number).
But minor credit to Anthropic, at least they've mostly stuck to their four model names (Haiku, Sonnet, Opus, and Fable). You mostly know where a model is MEANT to be positioned from the name alone. OpenAI cannot keep it consistent from release to release.
But, yes, currently Opus Vs. Fable has the same issue as Sol-6.1 Vs. Astra.
Both companies have screwed up their naming royally. Maybe that's intentional - I'm sure it doesn't hurt Anthropic to have people using Fable a bit longer than they need to and racking up a huge bill in the process.
It's like iPhone 17 being faster than iPhone 16 Pro. Because it's newer and benefits from advances in chip architecture, despite being a lower model tier. Sometimes different iPhone models are released at different times.
If you daily all these models (and have a modest budget, not some >$400 corporate allowance), then it's pretty obvious that Luna is small and fast, and Sol 6.1 is the big one for jobs that need significantly above average intelligence, comparatively to a human engineer. I use both constantly. Astra is really not relevant for the average dev except to do some moonshot task with a vague verification loop.
Sure Sol 6.1 on low/medium can be considered "cheap" considering its abilities, but it's clearly not meant for the same type of tasks as Luna. You just grow an intuition for when something is solvable with a Luna-sized model. I'm guessing Terra is good for the tasks that you'd typically use Sol 6.1-low for, or for Luna type tasks (or other not-novel problem) where you want to reduce the risks of suboptimal decision making. It's exactly what I'd go with for feature additions where the correct solution is already mostly designed/specced-out.
The way to think of this is that (current) inferencing hardware has natural cut points of efficient scale (assuming some optimal architecture which at this point is almost always an MOE variant), so you always have an incentive to provide 3-4 model sizes (which nicely enough often means diff speed to answer also).
You are also rolling the training of your models by size and the lat est small model can sometimes beat an older model.
For a while we thought you just train the big model first then distill smaller models from it but since we've learnt the importance of on policy RL (basically the way a small model figures out a problem is very diff from a big model so it's best to RL optimize each model distinctly)
If you scale a model down, or switch out attention with linear attention, or introduce KV-compression, etc., you don't really know how it will affect model performance before you've trained the model.
And once you've spent millions training it, you might as well make it available if it's pareto optimal for some tasks. It also gives you more insight seeing how people use it in practice.
Agree, it's confusing. I hear people discussing which model to use for what tasks and my head starts to spin because there are so many properties to account for and it's generally hard to reason about LLMs.
"Speed, quality, price: pick two". I think I'd rather see a choice like that than the current convolution of $-per-token, sub quota, latency, simulated reasoning level, model size, context size, etc, etc.
>But then things go confusing, they released Sol-6.1 which sometimes is superior to Astra, and discontinued Terra which made it look like this
I don't want to rush to their defense here, but, when model families are getting refreshed every 6 weeks, there is going to be significant overlap, particularly with these staggered releases
Wait I always thought terra was the smaller model and the further away you went in space the bigger the model (luna is further away so it’s better than terra)
the only confusing bit was dropping terra for a bit,
Luna (Small), Terra (Medium), Sol (Big), Astra (Bigger)
is perfectly clear, sol beats astra sometimes because Astra 6.1 was scrapped. and note that opus 5.5 beats fable 5.1 most of the time too without a skipped model.
It's especially confusing because Sol 6.1 is mostly just Astra but 10x slower at 1/10th the price - unless you pay for it to be as fast as Astra - at which point it's the same speed and price...
It's nice that they have Terra which seems to fill a void that's been needed since Sol 6 focused on cost (at the expense of quality), Sol 6.1 got a huge boost in quality, but became unusably slow unless you paid Astra prices - at which point, why not just use Astra?
You're just not paying attention. If you run copilot in copilot using copilot effort, it performs much better than copilot in copilot using copilot effort. This is clearly explained if you visit copilot.com using copilot and then search for copilot.
Interesting that both "none" and "low" reasoning levels appeared not to spend any reasoning tokens at all, and in fact low ended up using less tokens and costing less than none here.
"medium" did use 496 reasoning tokens, but that's apparently not enough here to return a visible reasoning trace.
It's neat that we can now compare the Terra without reasoning pelican (cost 0.64 cents) with the equivalently priced Luna with reasoning pelicans (Luna xhigh is 0.40 cents, Luna max is 0.91 cents). I think the Terra low one compares favorably to those, though I'd suggest also comparing them on tasks more representative of real work than generating pelican SVGs!
Can anyone give me the compelling reason for Terra and Sonnet to exist?
Virtually every task I give to either is better served by going up a tier and down a reasoning level, or down a tier and up a reasoning level. I simply don't understand their use case. No testing I've done has shown them to have a niche where there isn't a cheaper-with-equal-results or more-performant-at-same-cost option.
I think for the majority of the audience here who use these models inside of coding agent harnesses w/ subsidized monthly subscriptions, there likely isn't one. Depending on how Terra contributes to the rate limits, it may make sense to use it for some subset of a repeated workflow to get more mileage out of sub.
If you pay API prices for inference in your product stack & have specific use-cases w/ custom evals, these smaller models provide an additional cost/speed lever to adjust. Ultimately, I think the point is to compete on cost for use-cases where Sol on the lowest reasoning is overkill.
If you have a fairly straightforward usecase where Terra performs just as well as Sol, but is faster and cheaper, why not use it?
You should look at model reasoning level curves on the cost/performance chart on artificial analysis. If you compare the curves for haiku/sonnet/opus I would agree with you that sonnet serves no purpose because it is priced too high. If you look at luna/terra/sol you will see that terra is priced such that it successfully fills a gap between luna and sol. And when you add speed into the equation it adds another dimension where terra makes sense. terra low falls between luna xhigh and max on both cost and intelligence, but it is way faster because it uses way fewer reasoning tokens. So I would say there are workloads where terra makes sense. But from my analysis I don't see any workloads where sonnet makes sense.
On the API we use a lot of Luna (cost efficient) and sometimes Terra level models. I think we never use a larger model. These are models that our app runtimes depend on.
On subscription for coding and stuff I am basically on Astra Ultra all day long.
Sonnet is way faster than Opus when doing everyday tasks, I think on the subscription plans it's a better option when you need something done faster than Opus' long thinking sessions.
There is a chasm of performance difference between haiku and sonnet ime. Sonnet is cheaper and faster than Opus, so if you're providing a service via api where cost and speed is important, it's a big difference.
1. In Anthropic's benchmarks, Opus's advantage over Sonnet diminishes at high reasoning levels. Sonnet max actually beats Opus max.
2. There are rote or simple tasks where higher reasoning isn't needed and one model vs the other wouldn't even be distinguishable.
3. How many tokens are used during reasoning depends as much on the task as the reasoning level.
4. Sonnet is faster and half the price per token, so Opus will only be cheaper if it can spend fewer tokens. This won't be the case for all tasks. Opus and Sonnet will also consume the same number of tokens to load context, so the relative price comparison depends a lot on where the task is context-heavy or reasoning-heavy.
I have some business automation process for some customers that I maintain, where Terra with low reasoning ended up with the best price/performance & latency. With an equivalent Luna with high reasoning, price was usually better, but quality had a higher variance (very much depends on where the thinking takes the model) and latency for high reasoning was worse.
I've been refused to do cybersecurity (read-only investigative access against the recent brotli cve) with Opus 5.5 when I had full SSH access, so I guess you've got to have a fallback?
I cannot figure it out either.
I use Astra Ultra to plan and 6.1Sol High or X-High to build and even on huge projects with 10s of 1000s of pages it is fast and competent
If you use API in agent or your own integration with software, such models make a lot of sense. We use Terra 5.6 for "question to SQL" translation for example. It's good enough and affordable enough. Luna will probably not handle complex queries well while Sol is too expensive.
i use sonnet to generate answers to help-desk tickets, which it does for significantly cheaper and insignificantly worse than opus.
if you're just talking about use in codex or claude code, then sure, leave it on opus all the time. but for running routine api requests, sonnet is great.
Cheap and affordable. Dispatching proper tasks to these models can save you a huge % of your quota. Especially if you _know_ the task is simple (ie add something here or there, or archive a bunch of files and reformat kinda thing)
Maybe it's my tasks, but in the cases you're describing, I'm usually better off going down to Luna. I specifically don't see the gap where "It's too complex for Luna-high" and "It's not complex enough for Sol-low" exists.
I've personally found that most models completely collapse at sub-medium effort. I generally run most of my stuff at medium/xhigh with heavy core tasks @ max
Similar 75% price cut trajectory as GPT-5.6 Sol -> GPT-6.1 Sol. Overall, Terra is still half the price of Sol.
But like the original release of Terra, it's still a weird middle child between the small-model-that-got-substantially-better (Luna) and the large-model-that-got-significiantly-cheaper (Sol). The TerminalBench 4.0 cost-per-task results are a bit confusing and I'm not sure why you would pick Terra over Sol in that case. Overall this release seems like a flex on Sonnet 5.5: a model which is having its own middle child problems between the godly Opus 5.5 and the surprisingly capable Haiku 5.5.
It is having improvements in other fields than coding while being more cost efficient.
If all I want is coding at a cheaper price, then deepseek is a good model for that.
I am more than okay to have a bifurcation of models good for coding and models good for everything other than coding. I strangely imagined it many years ago.
Everyone is suggesting OpenAI to release a model close to opus 5.5 yet it's releasing this. On one hand we can imagine that maybe their training cycle wasn't able to produce this whereas gpt 6.1 terra was made.
But on the other hand, I also now wish to see an OpenAI model which is good for just pure coding, like an absolute beast at it while being cheap (so the opposite of terra)
ironically, one of the few appreciations that I might give to OpenAI if they pushed this model to prod and are facing some pushback as developers like us want/only see coding models. They could've benchmaxed it and it would've been slightly irrelevant. I'd much rather see reality.
At the very least, this new model won't make things more expensive for anybody and would only make use-cases cheaper depending on what they are, so it's a fine deal for me.
I also wonder maybe this is why open source labs aren't targeting this space and why the only focus of AI labs is coding nowadays. Everything else just doesn't seem so worth it from investor, even end user, training perspective.
Maybe this is the reason why we have gotten almost an exponential growth in coding capabilities as that became the most (if not only) capability that truly really matters.
To not wish for discussion to go to a tangent, nonetheless this could also explain why our work as a software engineer is going through a slight crisis of meaning as these AI models have gotten impressive at coding.
As an (aspiring) developer (currently in 1st year college), I don't wish for AI to replace coding even more for me or to push it even more or to suck the joy out of it even further. So I am more than happy for these models to stay as they are and rather make advancements elseplace. Ironic because it is us developers who use AI as well and we want cheaper workflows and so we would also want models to be cheaper and better at coding. There are some fine lines of contradictions and irony in all of it. I'd much rather also have open-weight models of such terra-like models but I imagine that because of the reasons that I mentioned above, we are most likely gonna see it the most focused on coding but still open-weights is pretty close.
The more choices the better (though choice-fatigue is a real thing), I hope I was able to explain some of the nuance I feel about this particular launch.
Why do Anthropic and OpenAI think it necessary to split their model into 4 versions (Opus, Sonnet, Fable, Haiku, Astra, Sol, Luna, Terra) vs. Google's 2 (Argon, Flash)?
They're doing its because they recently cut plan usage by about 50%, leaving Anthropic providing about 5x the value on their plans. [0]
The "cost per task" metric is just a weaselly way to sound like they didn't just double the cost for most users, and aren't having their proverbial lunch money stolen. They can no longer claim to provide more tokens, more capable models, or more usage in general. So they made up a new metric where "task" could be defined to mean whatever they need it to mean.
They had to become VERY specific in their wording to present any kind of value proposition that will entice people.
> 5x is calculated in terms of API costs, nobody pays those extreme Anthropic prices outside enterprise users.
Ignore value then. Anthropic still provides about 3x as many raw tokens. The 20x\200 plans provide about 10B for openai versus almost 30B for Anthropic.
Do you really think that Opus uses 3x as many tokens as Sol per task? I don't.
> Most users aren't on their $200 plan.
Fair enough. I should have said most heavy users.
> Most users (including on the $200 plan) continue being subsidized.
They continue to be fifty percent less subsidized, I guess.
Look, I don't fault them for trying to become profitable. I fault them for the weird weaselly business speak about cost per task. It's BS game playing and we all know it.
I'm honestly rooting for them, and hope it all works out. For now though I'm pretty salty that my bill jumped by 150% in one month. Gaslighting about made up metrics just makes me more angry.
Cost per task, time per task, quality (good luck measuring objectively between models) are the metric that matter. I don't care how much a token costs, I'm not buying tokens, I'm buying solutions.
OpenAI repeatedly keeps hurting user workflows by altering the model generations family for each new version in unpredictable ways. As such, it is not a sane ecosystem to develop in.
Just one thing about the advert, how can I be the only person here thinking the ad is weird - like for the marketing dep, its a bit weird the ad features the same tram that broke and tragically like ended some people - happened for like the first time ever in 100 years, like a year ago ( 14 months ago) just a bit weird.
Im honestly not trying to be negative, but its kinda weird I kinda feel I should mention it because noone else has?
Im sure literally anyone from southern europe must have thought this the second they saw the ad. It was big news last year.
Am I mad? Just a heads up for PR to always check things like this first when releasing a video? Maybe its just me? Just trying to help
Looks great on the first chart, but terrible on the Terminal Bench 4.0 where it needs xhigh to come close to 6.1 Sol, and costs more for a slightly worse result.
IMO it's useless because we don't even know what a pelican on a bike is supposed to look like, It's very impressive that that models can make these directly using SVG, but we are way past the "wow" stage and test that can't be gamed and are easy to prove how good the model is in that specific arena are hard to find.
The only thing that pelican have is "models where not trained on this" maybe that true months (or years ago) now it's on every HN post and these AI labs are monitoring HN
Not necessarily, they may have selected benchmarks where Terra performs relatively well compared to those models. Pretty much every model release these days just cherry-picks & highlights the benchmarks where their latest model performs best. We'll have to wait for the complete benchmark suite to have a better picture.
The results for factual error rate on "difficult" prompts is staggering to me. Particularly the difference between 5.6-Terra and 6.1-Terra. These are wildly different Pareto fronts. Our custom enterprise agent is currently running on 5.6-Terra and it's already very good. I look forward to updating the configuration.
The error bars on eval graphs are commonly like ±5%. It's fairly common to get out-of-order points when the gap between them is only a few percentage points. If we ran it again, or ran it with minor alterations, I'd expect the ordering to be expected. In general, we don't massage any of our eval numbers and for good statistical hygiene we'll report the first run we do, even if later runs show slightly smoother curves.
These "Pareto frontier" performance vs price graphs have become very popular and I find them mostly uninformative. Pricing is subjective. You chose the position on the X axis, and which measures to use on the Y Axis.
They say it has "A significant step up on factuality and coding".
My browser is underlining "factuality" in red. AI hallucinations or hallucinatiality are still a big problem in my experience.
Subscriptions provide thousands of dollars' worth of tokens if measured at API prices. While the value was once absurd, it is now slightly lower but still much cheaper.
AA has limited 1017 benchmarks so some terras versus 1017 Max:
max - 3 points smarter, 50% more expensive
xhigh - same score, 25% cheaper
high - 1 point dumber, 50% cheaper
Yes, V4.1 Flash 1017 is my daily driver cloud model. Copes fine with what I'd consider difficult brownfield development, like fixing bugs in vLLM prompt cache and coming up with small/sane overlay patches for them. Maybe it's disappointing for people who want to one-shot a game or website from a single prompt; I haven't tried that.
It's nice that their peak-rate hours end quite early in the day UK time.
You can do real world development with weaker models than Deepseek Flash.
I still use SOTA for the main model though, but also I'm perfectly aware it's mostly out of FOMO.
Deepseek is more than enough for default subagents though. Any well defined and verifiable task and there's absolutely zero difference between SOTA and good-enough models. Used to be just speed, but Deepseek is fast.
People keep asking OpenAI for a mode that's as good as Opus 5.5, and they release this instead. Interesting strategy. Let's see how it works out for them.
They don't have anything competitive with Opus 5.5 yet. There is a supposed model in the works, "Bel" last time I paid attention to gossip, that is thought to be better, later this year. Allegedly Anthropic caught OpenAI off guard and / or their different training approaches ended up working better than anticipated.
My expectation is Fable 5.5 is next overall improvement, and my bet is OpenAI's "Bel" will be the next competitive one (or, their lack of safety culture will bite them/us in the process).
There’s also a chance they surrender the dev market altogether to Ant and just focus on the “normie” segment with dots, computer use, excel etc. In which case they won’t have anything competitive to opus-5.5 anytime soon for SWE.
This release is interesting for enterprise at API rates.
At least unless the Terminal Bench 4.0 score is more indicative than the other ones, because that one shows it clearly worse than 6.1 Sol for both performance and cost.
Anthropic models are comically overpriced. They also gobble up an obscene # of tokens to get the same result as others. The price delta is literally 5x.
Taking the benchmarks (as reported by OpenAI) at face value, why wouldn't they show Opus 5.5 on the OS world benchmark, and show no Anthropic models at all on the "factual error rate" benchmark
Right?! I think sol has some obsessive tendencies, i literally caught it the other day spawning a sub sub agent doing a final fourth test for a piece of code that isn’t even critical say in embedded or similar, now I have to instruct it to only test once!
Note that while that page is from Pangram, the studies on it are not. If they are excluding studies that show Pangram performs poorly in realistic conditions, please share those studies!
That terminal bench 4.0 result is... bad? Terra XHigh more expensive than Sol Low and still does worse.
It's very likely this is a next checkpoint of GPT-6 "Sol", over-optimised for the web chat and offered to Codex subscribers as a "please go away" offering.
If this was half the price, I'd be very interested, but at 1/5/0.05? Feels like another panic release because they can't get Astra 6.1 out of the door...
First we had:
> Luna (Small), Terra (Medium), Sol (Big).
Which was fairly smooth after you got used to their planets.
But then they added Astra as the "Bigger," which was mostly still self-coherent:
> Luna (Small), Terra (Medium), Sol (Big), Astra (Bigger)
But then things go confusing, they released Sol-6.1 which sometimes is superior to Astra, and discontinued Terra which made it look like this:
> Luna (Small), Sol-6.1 == Astra
But with Sol-6.1 costing the old Terra-6.0 price, while, as I said performing as good as the old "Bigger" model in many non-3D/UI situations.
Now they're re-introduced Terra, as a 6.1 release, making this even more confusing.
Did Microsoft's chief branding officer move over to OpenAI?
In general, LLM performance is incredibly multidimensional. There's no guarantee of a fixed ordering where the model that is best at math is also the model that's best at jokes. Despite that complexity, much of the variation in performance is explained by just a single variable: model size. In general, models that are bigger will (a) be more performant / reliable, (b) cost more per token, and (c) have better recall of esoteric facts. As you note, our models are ordered:
Luna < Terra < Sol < Astra
Even today, I'd recommend this as a general starting point for picking models. If you care about quality only, pick Astra. If you're a bit price sensitive, pick Sol. If you're very price sensitive, pick Terra or Luna.
Of course, model size doesn't capture all variation. Models that are trained later might have new data or new techniques or new architectures that earlier models lack. You can see this with models from all providers - Sonnet 5.5 outperforms Fable 5.1 in ways, and Gemini 3.8 Flash outperforms 3.1 Pro in ways.
In the case of GPT-6.1 Terra, I'd say Terra is probably better than Astra and Sol at technical communication, similar on vision and computer use (but much faster!), and a bit worse on most other things. For API developers, it's a nice midrange option if you want something cheaper than Sol but a lot smarter than Luna (especially for vision / computer use / communication). For subscribers, it's not a bombshell release - if you're hitting usage limits, maybe it helps you go a bit further, and if you want clearer communication or faster computer use, it can be a nice option to select.
If you have suggestions on how to name our products better, I'm all ears. Our intention is to make things clear and simple, even if we miss the mark sometimes.
Unfortunately, a lot of the complexity is somewhat irreducible and due to to the actual complexity of the products. Scaling model size is different from scaling reasoning effort which is different from scaling multi-agent count. So if we just swept all of those under a single name of "more IQ", it would make the naming simpler but the experience much worse, as important details would be obfuscated from end users.
You certainly know that it happened not by accident that traditional computers are producing reliable results, a lot of work went into this.
Computers must produce reliable results, they are simply not useful if not.
People will understand that at some point, but a lot of damage already has been done.
What's confusing to me in addition to the naming is that there are no published guidelines I can use, as far as I can see. Put yourself in the user's shoes. On what basis should one pick a model for a given task?
I can understand smaller models being dumber and faster. That aligns well with scenarios where you are willing to compromise; e.g. you're classifying content or asking a model to format text into a table.
But when you want "maximum intelligence, cost and time be damned", there's the implication that bigger models are smarter on a linear scale, and every provider's model release naming is currently conflicting with that expectation.
This isn't just a naming problem, but a communication problem. If I knew that Astra was the best at coding but a bit bad at writing, and Sol was almost as smart but better at technical writing, then that's the kind of thing I expect to be documented.
One possible way: A simple matrix with horizontal columns like "writing", "coding", "math", rows are the models, and each box is a number of stars from 1-5.
Instead, this sort of thing becomes lore, shared by word of mouth.
I don't know, to be honest. Technical documentation is such a multidimensional skill, and I also don't know your budget. I'd imagine Terra might have the most readable prose, but Astra might be more likely to catch bugs or mistakes to highlight. If the documentation is about a more esoteric language or situation, Astra might have a greater edge than if it's a common language or situation. If you have a long list of documentation guidelines, that might also give more of an edge to Astra. I wouldn't want to make a recommendation without doing a lot of testing, and I haven't done a lot of testing.
Create a realistic eval suite for your use case using your actual data that you manually label, with easier, more complex, rarer samples, and run each model you are considering against it and decide based on the usual confusion matrix, cost, latency, or whatever metrics matter to you. There's really no other way to know – and you might be surprised that cheaper models can often perform your task(s) relatively well at a fraction of the cost.
I do not use agents to write on behalf of myself. I write my won technical write-ups and my own slide presentations. A lot of people don't; and it shows. There's much that agents can do better than humans now, but not everything.
Every model I've tried is just abysmal at this, for what it's worth.
If any do it well please let me know and I'll give it a spin.
Thanks. I think the very response you wrote here is a better form of marketing for the software engineers than what openAI puts out there. When everything is groundbreaking and everything tops charts, nothing is.
I suspect a lot of target demographic (developers) prefer simpler and honest communication about not just the models high points but low points too. With the linked Terra post, if I saw 1 chart that clearly highlighted the usecases for which Terra is _worse_ than higher tier models, I would be more convinced overall.
Everything trying to occupy the top spot in my brain's limited "top model" representation space is not helpful.
The website linked starts out with:
> We’re introducing GPT-6.1 Terra, a fast, efficient model that combines detailed visual reasoning and precise computer use alongside clearer, more natural writing. A significant step up from GPT‑5.6 Terra, it excels at the communication and computer-based tasks that fill the workday, from drafting proposals and interpreting technical drawings to filling out forms and editing videos.
If you go father down, it has graphs and details with specifics of this, including:
> We measured GPT-6.1 Terra’s computer-use capabilities... At medium reasoning effort, GPT-6.1 Terra scores 15 percentage points higher than GPT-5.6 Terra at about one-third the cost. It even performs on par with GPT-6 Astra at only one-tenth its price per token.
and
> On MMMU-Pro... It even nearly matches the scores of our most capable frontier model, GPT-6 Astra, and GPT-6.1 Sol at much lower cost.
Terra and Luna are dirt cheap and good enough for 50% (or more) of the typical junior dev's workload, and great for routine work. Sol and Astra have so much written about them at this point that it should be obvious what those are good at. The large/gigantic models for things that need full intelligence and slightly more branching thinking.
Luna < Terra < Sol < Astra, fine. But does Terra 6.1 beat Sol 6? Does Fable 5.1 beat Opus 5.5? If I build something around this Terra 6.1 release, then when Luna 6.2 is released in a month, should I swap?
If they were called iPhone 14 Luna and iPhone 16 Sol then this is less clear.
Or on the flipside, if the models were called GPT 6.1 Mini and GPT 6.1 Max, nobody would be arguing about the names being hard to grok. The words 'mini' or 'small' are more descriptive than 'Luna' or 'Terra'.
I wish
I'll just stick to mostly Sol on low/medium/high and start experimenting with Terra tomorrow onward to see what it does noticeably better than Luna/Deepseek flash.
Any pareto frontier model, especially from the leading labs is guarnateed to be good enough for whatever your expectations are at this point. A quick few day test should be enough for anyone to make their own conclusions.
> Run your own evals then if you have this much of a need to "correctly" choose.
No. OpenAI want my money, it's on them to communicate properly.
I wouldn't necessarily say that. Atmospheric mass may be obvious to us, but I suspect it's not nearly as universal knowledge as one may assume.
And I actually assumed at first that they were based on distance from us (terra < luna < sol), so I kept confusing terra and luna.
- Understanding how effort and class interact (Is a high effort terra above a low effort Sol? Are larger models mostly always better regardless of effort?)
- understanding when (if ever) a new model tends to be better than an older but higher class one. Is an old astra better than a new terra?
If increasing effort and increasing model class produce improved results in a different way, I miss making it explicit in which way. In other words: What kind of issue warrants going up in effort? what kind of issue warrants going up in model class? What kind of issue is unlikely to be solved by either?
Oh, easy:
https://deepswe.datacurve.ai/
Artificial Analysis has their own curves which are pretty similar.
You can literally see this in the charts from the article
I'm just worried the system design won't be as good if I choose a lesser model so to speak.
Edit: typos/grammar
Personally, I pretty much exclusively use claude for coding work (sorry!). Our application is running almost 100% on OpenAI API (except for some fallback models). It is the best API on the market. The models are excellent particularly for any application that is cost sensitive.
That could solve the 'more IQ' problem, because you'd actually have different dimensions (e.g. for 'raw intelligence', technical writing, emotional understanding, etc) that you could use to communicate the differences in models better.
(Of course people would instantly start complaining that the benchmarks numbers are probably fake etc, but it is what it is.)
> Despite that complexity, much of the variation in performance is explained by just a single variable: model size.
please release model size :p
With an optional flash mode.
Then as you release models, you pick the model and thinking level that you believe is pareto optimal for cost/performance.
So this auto updates each release, like Terra was probably off this list entirely, but maybe this would appear now in Auto medium or something like that.
I know from looking at charts that each model seems to have sweet spots (like I always use this model in this thinking level and if i want to go cheaper i go here). If you picked those for us, it would be interesting. I do think you should keep the model families for those wanting more consistent experiences, but for many devs they may want to just pick auto something and have it update over time. I think nice if it actually just said in parenthesis what it was, something like: Auto Medium (Terra 6.1 High)
I am not sure if everyone would agree here though. I'm obivously advocating for more naming schemes, and i understand the irony.
xlow = Luna Low
low = Luna xhigh
medium = Terra medium
high = Sol medium
xhigh = Sol xhigh
Max = Astra something?
Of course we have far too many benchmarks (of questionable utility), but it would be helpful to get OpenAI's take on where it slots in, and how the landscape changes as these get rolled out.
GPT 6.1 X > GPT 6.0 X GPT Y Astra > GPT Y Sol > GPT Y Terra > GPT Y Luna
This order is very important.
It’s probably just unavoidable. Like when Apple release a new MacBook Air first and it is (in some ways) faster than the old MacBook Pro.
I think the planets thing is a bit confusing though. I hadn’t really thought about it being based on the size of the planet. I assumed it was based on how far away they were with terra therefore being the base one.
I.e. are all version numbers independent and Model X 7.5 is not necessarily of the same generation or cut off as Model Y 7.5? Or do all of your 6.1 models have something in common - cut off data, generation, baseline technology, approach, architecture, or something else?
Thanks! :)
Back in the day we used numbers to also sometimes indicate size, which could make it extra confusing: e.g., we launched GPT-4.1 (an incremental update on GPT-4) after GPT-4.5 (a new model that was a big jump over GPT-4).
This seems like one of those cases, where CalVer would be appropriate, and you likely have ideas what you aim for while training, so technical model names (ids?) could include aliases to most things you said. Like 2026q4-xlarge-researcher, 2026q4-medium-humanitarian, 2026q4-medium-coder, 2027q1-small-analyst etc.
We're probably headed to further specialized agents where a single ordering or even model size won't mean a lot.
A favorite…
Prompt: “Tell a joke about mother in laws”
Gemma2 response: “What’s the best kind of mother in law? A dead one.” 0_o
I don't expect the vast majority of your users care. I would guess they want a rough proxy for "cost" and will assume cost=>capability are roughly linked in a linear fashion.
it is very possible that the users weighted by spend do, and I'm therefore simply wrong. But, 2c
Instead, we got Opus 5.5, Sonnet 5.5 and Haiku 5.5 released weeks apart, and so are Sol 6.1 and Terra 6.1?
all training runs have to at some level share the compute capacity ; while they have more than enough to run many large runs concurrently, they don’t have enough compute to run everything concurrently.
> If you have suggestions on how to name our products better, I'm all ears. Our intention is to make things clear and simple, even if we miss the mark sometimes.
How about naming the models:
"Small", "Medium", "Large" and "Very Large"
Or refer to them by parameter count like other companies (e.g. this is 6.1 5T)
If I have a clothing store, and rather than name the clothes sizes Small, Medium and Large I decide to call them Urgon, Planfar and Fangor I shouldn't be surprised if people think my size naming is confusing or silly. And IMO it's not a great explanation to say "oh it's easy, if you are skinny then you should get Urgon, but then if you are a bit more of a medium build you should get a Planfar, but if you want something a bit baggier than Fangor will really work out for you"
As a point of comparison, GPT-3 was launched in a series of small, medium, large, and XL. Back then, XL meant a mere 1.3 billion parameters!
You wouldn't - you would just put the version before it - 6.1 Small, 6.0 Medium etc. Not that complex.
Think of an iPhone 18 Pro - No need for 'iPhone 18 Even Better Super Pro' because the 'Pro' is relative with the version/generation.
Tiny/2026-11. Medium/2026-6. Big/2026-10. XL/2026-01. It may not be sexy, but people know exactly what it is and what to use.
Well you definitely missed that mark extremely badly here.
I can’t tell you the difference between the 10 different versions of the current iPhone and I can’t you the difference between the 5-6 different models put out by the Anthropics/OpenAIs of the world. At this point I just try to track the flagship and then the cheapest one or worst case I just use the flagship.
I’m sure internally there’s data showing people want choice and options but decision fatigue is of course very real.
Have a model alias called "math", another "jokes". Quality labels/date suffixes to these obvious labels. Repoint as needed.
Something for people who don't want to play the cute "which part of the solar system is trending this week" game.
Even "writing" as a single concept is very multidimensional. There's fiction writing, nonfiction for experts, nonfiction for learners, deep research, quick lookup Q&A, copyediting, writing in documents / artifacts, instruction following about style, and default quirks (e.g., em dashes, negation, loving the word "tapestry"). Some models are great writers but less diverse, meaning people prefer the first story they read but disprefer the tenth. How does one label such a model?
it's almost like ya'll let the AI name it ;)
Hire an actual marketing person instead of letting engineers / ML researchers do things they're clearly terrible at ?
For some reason, this is just hilarious to me. Idk if you're being serious or if this is passive aggressive but the thought of OAI actually taking advice from a random HNer and basing their naming scheme off that is peak.
Where else would you go? I'm honestly scratching my head thinking of someplace that wouldn't run you out on a rail, but that would give serious feedback. Kernel mailing lists are out, maybe there's something like that which I can't remember off the top of my head, but...
Also, nomenclature is incredibly hard. There are only two hard problems in computer science: cache expiration and naming things.
The primary users of any API are the designers and engineers of the applications that use it. How many laypeople know what Postgresql is? How many of the applications they use run on it?
The lineup of models is still the same.
There are four models: luna, terra, sol, and astra.
Pricing increases for each level. This new 6.1 Terra is 50% cheaper than Sol 6.1.
They are lowering prices for newer releases, so yes if you compare Sol 6.1 to 5.6 Terra it won't look right, but why are you doing that? Look at the same release version for comparable numbers.
Each model improves in successive releases but they maintain pricing and capability coherency within a release version.
Yes, Sol 6.1 is supposed to rival Astra for some work, which is what you'd expect from a later versioned release model against a prior release bigger model.
Assuming they release Astra 6.1 at some point, I expect it'll be better than Sol 6.1, at a higher price.
I don't understand what people are asking for here? No reductions in pricing? Different model names on every version release? Not releasing any models for a version number until they're all ready?
Given the operations of the model are opaque, can you see how someone (most people?) might be confused?
I see a ton of criticism and not a single person coming up with anything better, unless it's to take away options, like removing effort level.
What about buying Intel CPUs? A car? Electrical components?
If you're not just using this at a consumer level to ask about cooking recipes (and if that's your use case, you really don't care about API pricing, or any of this, and can just use the default), and are using it professionally, then this seems like a low bar of effort to understand what you're buying.
I do grant you the relationship between model and effort level has an unclear relationship, but there are also tradeoffs in most complex technical products that are not always clear; this is exacerbated by the fact that this product is stochastic.
Why are engineers using this as a professional tool expecting this to be bought like a consumer gadget and then blaming the maker?
This morning I asked GPT which models and settings I should use to inspect my VM dashboard with computer control. It said: - GPT-6 Astra at Medium - GPT-6.1 Sol at Medium (alt) - use Luna only when the route was already known.
But I had already completed the task twice with Luna and it was 5.6! It navigated through a few pages of my dashboard, pulled up the 30-day usage chart, analyzed my CPU and RAM, and explained why I didn’t need an upgrade. I’d give Luna 5.6 an A on this task.
Maybe OpenAI should give us a “Tiptronic” selector: recommend the model and reasoning level based on the prompt, while still letting users override it.
Why is it ok for engineers to have confusing names and ways to interact with something?
How am I supposed to decide between these options: https://imgur.com/a/bXHWowL
How am I supposed to keep up with the changes every few months?
No worries, you can always ask a AI.
Are you presenting this as evidence that OpenAI's naming scheme is bad?
If you don't want to spend the time to know the difference between all these different suppliers and their models, then why are you using whatever this program is that gives you so many choices, most of which are bad? Why is this OpenAI's fault?
They should have a guide saying "Terra is best at technical documentation and communication, Astra is best at large software projects and research, Sol is good for development" or something like that.
After that you just have model "strength" and version number. But of course strength is only comparable at equal version number and the two axes are almost parallel.
Anthropic also does this, perhaps to a lesser extent.
Let's say I have some task that Luna 6.1 cannot do, but Terra 6.1 can. So I build my product around that. In a month when Luna 6.2 is released, then I have to figure out whether it's worth to evaluate and swap or just wait for Terra 6.2.
I think the names are more of a reference to price. Luna is always cheaper than terra which is cheaper than Sol which is cheaper than Astra (for the same model number).
Per token, yes. But per task it's not even necessarily the case depending on how much thinking is needed.
But the model names are linear by price.
But minor credit to Anthropic, at least they've mostly stuck to their four model names (Haiku, Sonnet, Opus, and Fable). You mostly know where a model is MEANT to be positioned from the name alone. OpenAI cannot keep it consistent from release to release.
But, yes, currently Opus Vs. Fable has the same issue as Sol-6.1 Vs. Astra.
Both companies have screwed up their naming royally. Maybe that's intentional - I'm sure it doesn't hurt Anthropic to have people using Fable a bit longer than they need to and racking up a huge bill in the process.
It's like iPhone 17 being faster than iPhone 16 Pro. Because it's newer and benefits from advances in chip architecture, despite being a lower model tier. Sometimes different iPhone models are released at different times.
Sure Sol 6.1 on low/medium can be considered "cheap" considering its abilities, but it's clearly not meant for the same type of tasks as Luna. You just grow an intuition for when something is solvable with a Luna-sized model. I'm guessing Terra is good for the tasks that you'd typically use Sol 6.1-low for, or for Luna type tasks (or other not-novel problem) where you want to reduce the risks of suboptimal decision making. It's exactly what I'd go with for feature additions where the correct solution is already mostly designed/specced-out.
You are also rolling the training of your models by size and the lat est small model can sometimes beat an older model.
For a while we thought you just train the big model first then distill smaller models from it but since we've learnt the importance of on policy RL (basically the way a small model figures out a problem is very diff from a big model so it's best to RL optimize each model distinctly)
Yes, a more modern smaller model can beat an older bigger model at some tasks, that's what can be confusing.
If you scale a model down, or switch out attention with linear attention, or introduce KV-compression, etc., you don't really know how it will affect model performance before you've trained the model.
And once you've spent millions training it, you might as well make it available if it's pareto optimal for some tasks. It also gives you more insight seeing how people use it in practice.
"Speed, quality, price: pick two". I think I'd rather see a choice like that than the current convolution of $-per-token, sub quota, latency, simulated reasoning level, model size, context size, etc, etc.
I don't want to rush to their defense here, but, when model families are getting refreshed every 6 weeks, there is going to be significant overlap, particularly with these staggered releases
And some variants (e.g., the medium one) being skipped or delayed for a certain generation doesn't really change the overall size branding.
Luna (Small), Terra (Medium), Sol (Big), Astra (Bigger)
is perfectly clear, sol beats astra sometimes because Astra 6.1 was scrapped. and note that opus 5.5 beats fable 5.1 most of the time too without a skipped model.
It's nice that they have Terra which seems to fill a void that's been needed since Sol 6 focused on cost (at the expense of quality), Sol 6.1 got a huge boost in quality, but became unusably slow unless you paid Astra prices - at which point, why not just use Astra?
Now at least we have a viable other option again.
Obviously not, otherwise the four models would be called Copilot, as well as the harness.
“Test them all”
Interesting that both "none" and "low" reasoning levels appeared not to spend any reasoning tokens at all, and in fact low ended up using less tokens and costing less than none here.
"medium" did use 496 reasoning tokens, but that's apparently not enough here to return a visible reasoning trace.
OpenAI's current frontier model lineup is gpt-6-astra, gpt-6.1-sol, gpt-6.1-terra, gpt-6-luna, so here's a comparison grid of all of their pelicans at different reasoning levels: https://static.simonwillison.net/static/2026/openai-pelicans...
Virtually every task I give to either is better served by going up a tier and down a reasoning level, or down a tier and up a reasoning level. I simply don't understand their use case. No testing I've done has shown them to have a niche where there isn't a cheaper-with-equal-results or more-performant-at-same-cost option.
If you pay API prices for inference in your product stack & have specific use-cases w/ custom evals, these smaller models provide an additional cost/speed lever to adjust. Ultimately, I think the point is to compete on cost for use-cases where Sol on the lowest reasoning is overkill.
If you have a fairly straightforward usecase where Terra performs just as well as Sol, but is faster and cheaper, why not use it?
https://docs.github.com/en/copilot/reference/ai-models/suppo...
On subscription for coding and stuff I am basically on Astra Ultra all day long.
2. There are rote or simple tasks where higher reasoning isn't needed and one model vs the other wouldn't even be distinguishable.
3. How many tokens are used during reasoning depends as much on the task as the reasoning level.
4. Sonnet is faster and half the price per token, so Opus will only be cheaper if it can spend fewer tokens. This won't be the case for all tasks. Opus and Sonnet will also consume the same number of tokens to load context, so the relative price comparison depends a lot on where the task is context-heavy or reasoning-heavy.
What are you smoking and can I have some?
I have some business automation process for some customers that I maintain, where Terra with low reasoning ended up with the best price/performance & latency. With an equivalent Luna with high reasoning, price was usually better, but quality had a higher variance (very much depends on where the thinking takes the model) and latency for high reasoning was worse.
if you're just talking about use in codex or claude code, then sure, leave it on opus all the time. but for running routine api requests, sonnet is great.
I think it's also a fake lever to give to finops / it teams to try and keep costs down.
To justify the pricing of Sol and Astra. Old business trick.
But like the original release of Terra, it's still a weird middle child between the small-model-that-got-substantially-better (Luna) and the large-model-that-got-significiantly-cheaper (Sol). The TerminalBench 4.0 cost-per-task results are a bit confusing and I'm not sure why you would pick Terra over Sol in that case. Overall this release seems like a flex on Sonnet 5.5: a model which is having its own middle child problems between the godly Opus 5.5 and the surprisingly capable Haiku 5.5.
It is having improvements in other fields than coding while being more cost efficient.
If all I want is coding at a cheaper price, then deepseek is a good model for that.
I am more than okay to have a bifurcation of models good for coding and models good for everything other than coding. I strangely imagined it many years ago.
Everyone is suggesting OpenAI to release a model close to opus 5.5 yet it's releasing this. On one hand we can imagine that maybe their training cycle wasn't able to produce this whereas gpt 6.1 terra was made.
But on the other hand, I also now wish to see an OpenAI model which is good for just pure coding, like an absolute beast at it while being cheap (so the opposite of terra)
ironically, one of the few appreciations that I might give to OpenAI if they pushed this model to prod and are facing some pushback as developers like us want/only see coding models. They could've benchmaxed it and it would've been slightly irrelevant. I'd much rather see reality.
At the very least, this new model won't make things more expensive for anybody and would only make use-cases cheaper depending on what they are, so it's a fine deal for me.
I also wonder maybe this is why open source labs aren't targeting this space and why the only focus of AI labs is coding nowadays. Everything else just doesn't seem so worth it from investor, even end user, training perspective.
Maybe this is the reason why we have gotten almost an exponential growth in coding capabilities as that became the most (if not only) capability that truly really matters.
To not wish for discussion to go to a tangent, nonetheless this could also explain why our work as a software engineer is going through a slight crisis of meaning as these AI models have gotten impressive at coding.
As an (aspiring) developer (currently in 1st year college), I don't wish for AI to replace coding even more for me or to push it even more or to suck the joy out of it even further. So I am more than happy for these models to stay as they are and rather make advancements elseplace. Ironic because it is us developers who use AI as well and we want cheaper workflows and so we would also want models to be cheaper and better at coding. There are some fine lines of contradictions and irony in all of it. I'd much rather also have open-weight models of such terra-like models but I imagine that because of the reasons that I mentioned above, we are most likely gonna see it the most focused on coding but still open-weights is pretty close.
The more choices the better (though choice-fatigue is a real thing), I hope I was able to explain some of the nuance I feel about this particular launch.
(For some reason they say "Cache read" instead of "Cached input" for 6.1 Terra)
6.1 Astra and 6.1 Luna must be coming up soon. Will they reduce their prices further?
I'm optimistic about them tackling frontier intelligence next. Astra 6.1 please?
The "cost per task" metric is just a weaselly way to sound like they didn't just double the cost for most users, and aren't having their proverbial lunch money stolen. They can no longer claim to provide more tokens, more capable models, or more usage in general. So they made up a new metric where "task" could be defined to mean whatever they need it to mean.
They had to become VERY specific in their wording to present any kind of value proposition that will entice people.
[0] https://newsletter.semianalysis.com/p/anthropic-subscription...
5x is calculated in terms of API costs, nobody pays those extreme Anthropic prices outside enterprise users.
> like they didn't just double the cost for most users
Most users aren't on their $200 plan. Most users (including on the $200 plan) continue being subsidized.
Ignore value then. Anthropic still provides about 3x as many raw tokens. The 20x\200 plans provide about 10B for openai versus almost 30B for Anthropic.
Do you really think that Opus uses 3x as many tokens as Sol per task? I don't.
> Most users aren't on their $200 plan.
Fair enough. I should have said most heavy users.
> Most users (including on the $200 plan) continue being subsidized.
They continue to be fifty percent less subsidized, I guess.
Look, I don't fault them for trying to become profitable. I fault them for the weird weaselly business speak about cost per task. It's BS game playing and we all know it.
I'm honestly rooting for them, and hope it all works out. For now though I'm pretty salty that my bill jumped by 150% in one month. Gaslighting about made up metrics just makes me more angry.
Nope to both. Not even close.
The only way it works is if you define "task" in a way that OpenAI is good at it and Anthropic isn't.
Just one thing about the advert, how can I be the only person here thinking the ad is weird - like for the marketing dep, its a bit weird the ad features the same tram that broke and tragically like ended some people - happened for like the first time ever in 100 years, like a year ago ( 14 months ago) just a bit weird.
Im honestly not trying to be negative, but its kinda weird I kinda feel I should mention it because noone else has?
Im sure literally anyone from southern europe must have thought this the second they saw the ad. It was big news last year.
Am I mad? Just a heads up for PR to always check things like this first when releasing a video? Maybe its just me? Just trying to help
The pelicans place it nicely between Sol and Luna in terms of both pricing and results.
The only thing that pelican have is "models where not trained on this" maybe that true months (or years ago) now it's on every HN post and these AI labs are monitoring HN
On AA intelligence index, this fills in the cost per task frontier nicely between 6 Luna and 6.1 sol. So when 6.1 Luna inevitably releases...
The OAI model tango seems to not have an end in sight, for better or worse. Give me more API toys!
(I work at OpenAI.)
My plan for OpenAI recently expired and now I’m thinking to test Anthropic ecosystem. My primary use case is programming only.
Should I go with API use or subscription? For coding harness, I jump between codex, OpenRouter, pi, whatever coding harness is trending on that day
Anthropic does not allow you to use 3rd party harnesses -- you have to use Claude Code. Claude Code is an excellent harness, though.
If you want the freedom to move between harnesses you should use OpenAI or xAI
According to this, Sol 6.1 x-high is both cheaper and smarter than Terra 6.1 max.
Previous Terra model was so good it was discontinued.
OpenAi needs a model to compete with Opus 5.5, and that's not Terra 6.1.
If not, yawn...
It's nice that their peak-rate hours end quite early in the day UK time.
If you live in a country with a weak currency, DeepSeek models are definitely a godsend.
I still use SOTA for the main model though, but also I'm perfectly aware it's mostly out of FOMO.
Deepseek is more than enough for default subagents though. Any well defined and verifiable task and there's absolutely zero difference between SOTA and good-enough models. Used to be just speed, but Deepseek is fast.
My expectation is Fable 5.5 is next overall improvement, and my bet is OpenAI's "Bel" will be the next competitive one (or, their lack of safety culture will bite them/us in the process).
At least unless the Terminal Bench 4.0 score is more indicative than the other ones, because that one shows it clearly worse than 6.1 Sol for both performance and cost.
let's see if it can pass the Pangram test. Many services purport to fool it, but fail.
https://www.pangram.com/blog/third-party-pangram-evals
Note that while that page is from Pangram, the studies on it are not. If they are excluding studies that show Pangram performs poorly in realistic conditions, please share those studies!
You wouldn't even need to be able to read the information the watermark encodes to recognize it exists in a piece of text
It's very likely this is a next checkpoint of GPT-6 "Sol", over-optimised for the web chat and offered to Codex subscribers as a "please go away" offering.
If this was half the price, I'd be very interested, but at 1/5/0.05? Feels like another panic release because they can't get Astra 6.1 out of the door...
Update: Look at the OpenAI employees downvoting me.