31 comments

  • zeafoamrun 0 minutes ago
    I guess I'm used to seeing the english language being mangled by corp-speak but "creative" as a noun that doesn't even refer to a "creative" person (which also feels like a recent addition) really grates!
  • karlkloss 33 minutes ago
    Does nobody talk abot the elephant in the room? Will the answers the AI gives also be influenced by Googles customers?
    • gbro3n 29 minutes ago
      I won't be able to use their AI results if they are, personally. If I ask the question "what is the best tool for doing x" and I can't trust that the answer is going to be the truth according to all available information, then the AI is useless or worse, misleading. If google is unbiased, and only highlights paid advertiser mentions, no one will pay. I'd only accept this if it was a clear separation of LLM response and ads in a sidebar or something similar. Other people may not care. Many happily read politically affiliated news knowing that their opinions and actions may be influenced by a media source.
      • weird-eye-issue 21 minutes ago
        Let me let you in on a little industry "secret"

        You can't trust those results no matter what

        The pages that they pull in to source that data all contain affiliate links and companies contact websites to get their tools to the tops of those lists by paying money often monthly. I know this because I do this...

        It's basically standard SEO but it also manipulates AI like ChatGPT very very easily

        • faangguyindia 12 minutes ago
          Simplest way to do is by running affiliate program for your SaaS and shady marketers will do everything to get sales if it's profitable.
        • reactordev 20 minutes ago
          This is why local AI is so important
          • Schweigerose 7 minutes ago
            How do you make sure that the model you run locally is not tainted? Is there even a way to confirm this without providing the complete training set?
          • bayindirh 10 minutes ago
            It's already being trained on "public" (ethical or otherwise) data. So, it already has ingested that kind of "optimization" during pre-training and training.

            I don't think you can fine-tune your way out of it.

          • soloto 6 minutes ago
            Local AI will have the bias that existed at the time of its training, which is different from no bias. For stuff that needs to be current, a local LLM would need to search the net regardless.
            • embedding-shape 3 minutes ago
              And since "no bias" isn't something that actually exists in reality when it comes to language or even anything near humans, "bias in local model I can introspect" will always be miles ahead of "bias I know is there, but cannot introspect".
          • rdtsc 6 minutes ago
            Not if the models come from Google. The ads will be implicit in the model. X is better that Y an Z would be easy to add to a the training set.
          • jondea 9 minutes ago
            It's less compromised, but it's still basing the answer on compromised queries. This is why I pay for independent reviews (e.g Which) where their incentives are more aligned with yours.
          • rplnt 10 minutes ago
            That doesn't solve this particular problem. Your local model was trained on reddit comments written by bots.
          • FergusArgyll 10 minutes ago
            How does that help if it's using search? You get whatever the search engine outputs
      • nekzn 17 minutes ago
        Sorry to tell you that all websites you get when you google "what is the best tool for doing x" are already manipulated, including reddit conversations.
        • _heimdall 14 minutes ago
          Don't forget the YouTube videos, those "top 5 x" robot videos are the worst.
      • adverbly 12 minutes ago
        Those sort of things are already highly biased because of the marketing spam that the modelsmare trained on.

        I'd be more worried about AI convincing you that you need a product or expensive solution when you actually don't.

    • stingraycharles 31 minutes ago
      This is not an elephant in the room, this is so obvious. What else is Google going to do, give up their one and only goose that lays the golden eggs?

      Regular search being replaced with AI search means regular search (with ads) being replaced with AI search (with ads).

      The benefit of AI search will be that it’s much better “integrated” in the answer, aka even harder to detect.

      • chilli_axe 11 minutes ago
        Elephants in the room are obvious by definition.
      • akoboldfrying 10 minutes ago
        > This is not an elephant in the room, this is so obvious.

        Maybe they grew up in an environment where the phrase "elephant in the room" meant a situation where people enter a room, notice an elephant there, and immediately scream "Jesus Christ there's a goddamn elephant!"

        • bbmatryoshka 4 minutes ago
          Usually the elephant in a room is something very evident about which no one wants to discuss about
      • NitpickLawyer 9 minutes ago
        > their one and only goose that lays the golden eggs?

        Eh, it really isn't the only goose in goog town. Cloud is at ~20% of their total revenue, and probably is going up w/ their hardware success and other licensing deals. I'm curious to see what goog can do with their properties if this trend continues. Less reliance on ads could be interesting. (many former googlers have said that pressure from the ad business was felt across all their products)

    • bayindirh 27 minutes ago
      The method is already public for some time now. I bookmarked it since I share it a lot:

      https://research.google/blog/mechanism-design-for-large-lang...

      It's the same. There are slots, there's bidding, there're bidders. Same ad model, evolved for AI era.

      • iugtmkbdfil834 16 minutes ago
        Sigh, thank you for sharing this. This is disheartening ( even if not unexpected ) given that I actually like current version of gemini based on how well it performed -- all things considered -- relative to gpt sub on recommendation check.
        • bayindirh 12 minutes ago
          I never ask computers about a certain device directly. I lost that faith eons ago. I first search for candidates, then go to official pages to check specs and then read / watch reviews, then decide.

          Yes, it takes time, but I'm the one to blame if something goes wrong about it.

          Also, it helps that I don't use Google for searching the web. I prefer Kagi.

          I use Gemini (and only Gemini) to dig the net for the things that I can't find despite my best efforts. They are generally unbranded or very specific things, so ads doesn't play much role there.

          I'm a bad customer for Google. :D

    • philipwhiuk 0 minutes ago
      Obviously.
    • crowcroft 5 minutes ago
      This never occurred to traditional search results so highly doubt they’ll start now.
    • AlfieJones 6 minutes ago
      Even if it's not right now, it's hard not seeing this happening at some point
    • da_chicken 23 minutes ago
      That will be fun because it's illegal to accept money to promote a product without indication that you have done so. The FTC requires "clear and conspicuous disclosure" for such endorsements.
      • kubik369 4 minutes ago
        The chat interface has the disclaimer "AI responses may include mistakes." and that appears to be enough to relieve them of any responsibility for the responses. In a similar manner, wouldn't it be enough to add a disclaimer that says "AI responses may include sponsored content."?
      • rplnt 6 minutes ago
        You can label the whole output, every time, right? May include sponsored content or something.
      • twobitshifter 19 minutes ago
        Crime is legal now
        • _heimdall 5 minutes ago
          Unenforced crimes are still crimes, you have to rewrite laws to change that.
      • vrganj 14 minutes ago
        Doesn't matter as long as you bribe the right people. The government is completely compromised.
    • Predaxia 32 minutes ago
      That's the real question and it's not hypothetical. Google already adjusts organic rankings based on advertiser relationships in ways that aren't documented. With AI Mode the surface area for that kind of influence is much larger and much less visible. A search result you can inspect. A synthesized answer you can't.
      • modin 25 minutes ago
        Don't they already to this with maps routing? I thought this was the norm.
    • reactordev 20 minutes ago
      All signs point to yes. It’s Google’s profit center.
    • shevy-java 1 minute ago
      This is the problem with the black box model. These adCompanies control what people see. People don't know if they can trust the generated slop.

      It is the end of the open web. People need to wake up and realise what full Evil is being planned here. Google tried this before, e. g. AMP and what not.

    • vrganj 20 minutes ago
      Not just their customers.

      Their entire ideology. An LLM is the perfect propaganda technology, the more people outsource their thinking to them, the easier they will be for Big Corporate to control.

      It's crazy to me that AI developments have such a big uncritical following from people that claim to be pro-freedom, especially around these parts. The end goal is and always has been enslavement to capital.

    • pelasaco 17 minutes ago
      for sure, i guess this is one of the experiments that confirms that would work https://openai.com/index/where-the-goblins-came-from/
  • lars_von_pidor 2 minutes ago
    The only reason Google is pushing this AI crap is so that they can shove ads right into people's throats without them being able to use ad blockers (it's easy to block a web script but virtually impossible to block the text itself), effectively doubling their profits overnight.
  • nelblu 27 minutes ago
    > We’re introducing more helpful ads in AI Mode

    I always chuckle when ad companies say that. I have never seen a helpful ad in google search, but well I have been using adblockers forever so I would not know.I am honestly curious though, for those who don't use adblockers - what percentage of ads that you see are actually helpful?

    • sedawkgrep 9 minutes ago
      Since when have we considered ads something helpful?

      Their purpose isn’t to be helpful. They're there to sell you something, and nothing more. Any semblance of helpfulness is misinterpretation and merely coincidental.

    • laurentiurad 7 minutes ago
      What do you expect them to say? More annoying ads? They're trying to wrap this in a positive way. Everyone knows that ads are annoying.
    • Eldodi 15 minutes ago
      Some might argue that Adwords got so successful because ads competed like search results, on bid AND relevance, not just bid.

      If your ads inventory is big enough, ads can actually be a better answer to your intent than organic content, because the companies behind the ads have a much stronger incentive to satisfy your need.

      • _heimdall 1 minute ago
        Paid ads always negatively distort the results.

        If AdWords or search consider both relevance and the fee collected, the end user will never be shown the most useful results consistently. If the goal was usefulness they would only pick results by relevance and take no fee at all, or take a flat fee that isn't based on a bidding system.

    • rib3ye 19 minutes ago
      Recently I’ve been starting up quick web projects and a number of external services are recommend (Neon, Resend, Railway), and if I just let the agent rip, signed-up for and implemented. Is it confirmed any LLM producer or provider has been receiving kickbacks for these technical decisions?
    • Antibabelic 21 minutes ago
      I don't have an ad blocker on my laptop. The ads I get are pretty much entirely generic and irrelevant to me, I don't remember ever consciously clicking on an ad.
    • baal80spam 26 minutes ago
      > I have never seen a helpful ad

      There, I fixed it!

    • iLoveOncall 23 minutes ago
      I never have on Google Search (I also block them to be fair), but I've booked a lot of shows through Instagram ads actually. Shows I learnt about only through those ads and I would have been disappointed to miss said shows.

      But yeah that's literally the only platform where I've ever had useful ads. Even other meta products only have absolute garbage ads.

  • jdw64 21 minutes ago
    I wonder whose bright idea it was to label ads as 'helpful'. Do Google execs actually look for ads first when they google a question?
  • QuantumNoodle 10 minutes ago
    > With Conversational Discovery ads, your ad answers a person’s specific question.

    Ah so my "search" results are going to be biased and at the mercy of the highest bidder.

  • FinnKuhn 33 minutes ago
    I would have expected them to wait with ads until OpenAI starts first and users switch to Gemini. Google is probably the player that could afford to wait the longest with this and increase their market share that way.
  • ablation 41 minutes ago
    Well, yes. I mean of course they are. They're an ad company.
  • schnitzelstoat 27 minutes ago
    I've tried the AI mode and it seems to basically give the same results as a ChatGPT query - which raises the question why use Google AI mode and not ChatGPT? (or any other of the similar models?)
    • twobitshifter 18 minutes ago
      I think the search results are still there with AI mode
    • dbbk 26 minutes ago
      Well Google is going to exist 10 years from now and ChatGPT will not
      • bogdan 7 minutes ago
        Wait until they release 100 year bonds.. oh wait, they already did lol
  • spaqin 5 minutes ago
    They really couldn't have waited any longer after announcing the shift to AI mode. Almost immediately. I'm sure the employees who worked on it must be terribly proud.
  • gsky 20 minutes ago
    Most ads i see on YouTube are outright scams. Google and Meta are so evil.
  • wateralien 1 minute ago
    So the web is now pay to play.
  • cryo32 11 minutes ago
    Dear customers, we regret to inform you that the existing hallucinations now include biased trash.
  • DeathArrow 0 minutes ago
    At this point, why do we, the end users, need Google for? Sure, companies might need Google to display their ads or to use Google Cloud. But end users? GPT, or Claude or Grok do a better job searching.
  • Eldodi 35 minutes ago
    It will be interesting how hidden those ads will be compared to current Search experience or what OpenAI is already doing.

    It's a lot easier to mislead a user with an AI generated ad that with a Search result IMHO, I'm betting on a huige backlash if they don't make it VERY clear that ads are ads.

  • pelagicAustral 24 minutes ago
    What I am really waiting for is ads on my commit messages.
  • woeirua 27 minutes ago
    Google has to do this to protect their ad revenue. But… Anthropic doesn’t have to do ads (OpenAI might have to for their free tier) and if the ads degrade the experience too much then people will just abandon Google/Gemini for search entirely.
    • bot403 9 minutes ago
      I've been abandoning Google before ai ads....kagi has let me take control again of my search results and I can ban low quality domains like google used to be able to do.
  • shevy-java 2 minutes ago
    Not long ago, some of those CEO clowns at Google, stated that Google is now an AI company. I had to chuckle, because I knew it was a lie. Google changed into an adCompany years ago already. That's why e. g. it killed off its search engine with promo-links and what not.

    And now they admitted it AGAIN! "AI Mode" is basically an AdMode.

    This also explains why they declared total war against ublock origin.

    I think it is time the empire strikes back. We must get rid of Evil here - let's get rid of Google. This adCompany no longer has a useful purpose. All the "freebie features" (which are not free; ads pay for that) can be done by others, if people work together. We need no extension of more ads here.

  • adverbly 4 minutes ago
    Kinda interesting how Google is releasing a big wave of enshitifications immediately prior to the Anthropic and OpenAI and spacex IPOs.

    On assumes there is a strategic reason for it, but I'm not sure about what it is.

    Anyone have a theory or care to guess?

  • anonzzzies 15 minutes ago
    So every search will now result in an ad and/or hallucination?
  • rashar 14 minutes ago
    Ads and population control by propaganda are the future of AI.

    GenAI in other fields is useless and only promoted by charlatans or the financially invested.

  • wompapumpum 36 minutes ago
    Please let me advertise beside incorrect content
    • another-dave 22 minutes ago
      Need a proof reader who can spell strawberry? Send your AI draft to us for corrections.
  • swiftcoder 36 minutes ago
    ...was this ever in doubt? Search accounts for >50% of alphabet's total revenue - they are hardly going to kill the golden goose intentionally
    • pocksuppet 28 minutes ago
      Not search - ads in search account for >50% of their total revenue.
      • carschno 9 minutes ago
        Don't _ads in search_ account for 100% of their search revenue? Does Google Search offer any other paid services?
  • amazingamazing 38 minutes ago
    Surprised it took this long.
  • field_reader 8 minutes ago
    Isn't this the whole point? Surely no one still believes in that stuff anymore.
  • Trias11 29 minutes ago
    Yeah, Lets build the next generation AI and slap an ads on it for a good measure.
  • _3u10 23 minutes ago
    Will I be able to pay google to make its Claude code write code that uses left pad as a service.
  • _3u10 28 minutes ago
    Fuck yes. I was worried about not having ads and google providing useful results again.

    The last time i clicked on an AI link it took me to a page that wasn’t just more google ads or SEo bullshit. It was very disappointing I was looking forward to accidentally clicking more ads and instead found information relevant to what I wanted to know.

  • techterrier 14 minutes ago
    dog barks, more at 11
  • bozturk43 13 minutes ago
    [dead]