SDL Now Supports DOS

(github.com)

145 points | by Jayschwa 3 hours ago

11 comments

  • ronsor 2 hours ago
    All that's left now is SDL for UEFI, and then all our games can run in a pre-OS environment.
    • mananaysiempre 38 minutes ago
      That... Shouldn’t be terribly difficult? Though I don’t believe UEFI has sound drivers (you’ll have problems writing one yourself because even frickin’ sound-codec chips have NDA-only datasheets these days), and the stupidest thing is that the “graphics output protocol” doesn’t indicate vsync so you can’t do tear-free blitting, which is literally worse than VGA.
    • BirAdam 1 hour ago
      Well… UEFI is kind of modern DOS.
      • lnx01 37 minutes ago
        It certainly is not.
    • chaps 2 hours ago
      That honestly sounds amazing. Imagine booting into something like a grub menu that's just a list of classic games.
      • Xirdus 2 hours ago
        I basically had this setup back in the day. I don't really know how I ended up with it, I was 7 at the time and none of it was intentional - but my bootloader had two entries: I could boot into Windows 98, or I could boot into Worms.
        • Dwedit 2 hours ago
          It's a similar idea, but that's a DOS menu. At the point when the menu appears, MS-DOS 7.1 has already been loaded.
        • dale_glass 1 hour ago
          Probably your parents setting it up?

          As far as I know, Worms is a normal DOS game, so the only way for that to happen should be a DOS install configured to just auto-start Worms on boot. Which makes sense as a way to keep a kid away from anything that could cause trouble.

          I very vaguely recall that there used to be a very few PC games that worked as boot floppies and possibly didn't use DOS at all, but it was a rarity and Worms definitely wasn't one.

          • Induane 1 hour ago
            I bet it wasn't actually the bootloader but something with autoexec.bat - you could setup choices in it and windows was just one launch option.
            • Xirdus 1 hour ago
              Well, if you treat DOS as a bootloader for Windows 98 - which it was actually - then modifying autoexec.bat would count as setting up the bootloader.
          • Xirdus 1 hour ago
            No, I set it up. My parents were non-technical. I had a CD-ROM re-release of Worms for DOS from one gaming magazine or another. I guess the installer set it up somewhere somehow but I remember it wasn't easy to get it installed and there were further problems trying to launch it. It's possible the installer itself was a DOS program, not a Windows program.
      • ButlerianJihad 14 minutes ago
        Imagine trying to play "Global Thermonuclear War", but the author put it behind a confirmation dialog!
      • queuebert 2 hours ago
        I would guess a modern BIOS chip is as powerful as an NES, right?
        • snazz 2 hours ago
          You can do substantially more in UEFI than NES-level games. (See https://uefi.org/specs/UEFI/2.9_A/12_Protocols_Console_Suppo...)
        • fluoridation 2 hours ago
          What do you mean by "BIOS chip"? Like, the flash memory that stores the motherboard's firmware? I don't think that contains any processing elements.
          • sedatk 2 hours ago
            BIOS can only manage VESA which is much much slower than the capabilities of a modern GPU, so they might have meant graphical performance in regards to that.
    • pjmlp 30 minutes ago
      Welcome to Amiga games, in many cases the floppy would contain the boot loader that would directly jump into the game.

      At least on the Amiga 500 you would not go through the trouble to start Workbench, only to load the game, unless you were a lucky owner of an external hard drive.

      • markus_zhang 18 minutes ago
        I recall many IBM-PC games are bootable games. I inserted a floppy , resets the computer, and then it directly boots into the game. The disk must contain a boot sector and drivers and such.
  • alnwlsn 2 hours ago
    This is an especially funny screenshot as DosBOX itself is built on SDL.
  • vunderba 2 hours ago
    Awesome. I wonder how this would work with a 386+ targeted MS-DOS executable from FreeBASIC, which supports binding to SDL.

    [1] - https://github.com/freebasic/fbc

  • jlokier 1 hour ago
    Perfect! I was just doing some Turbo C development inside DOSBox-X inside Debian GNU/Linux inside VMware Fusion inside macOS this morning.
    • vodou 39 minutes ago
      Was this a joke? I must know!
    • bpavuk 1 hour ago
      you may also enjoy watching Inception then :)
  • looneysquash 57 minutes ago
    For a open source project like SDL is, for something like this, it's usually a matter of how invasive it is, and how likely the contributors seem to stick around and maintain it.

    Different projects have different policies, and I don't know what SDLs is.

    But they already have a lot of ports, so I trust they know what they're getting themselves into.

  • vintermann 20 minutes ago
    SDL getting back to its Loki roots
  • Dwedit 2 hours ago
    Technically this already worked with HXDOS, which emulated DirectDraw well enough that SDL could use it.
  • shevy-java 1 hour ago
    Good - now we can play more DOS games again!
  • raverbashing 2 hours ago
    Well I guess Allegra was a bit old already /s
    • sedatk 1 hour ago
      I loved Allegra! Saved me a lot of time when I was writing code for our musicdisk. That was 29 years ago though. :)
  • jan_Sate 2 hours ago
    Uhm... excuse me? Why? Is there anyone even using DOS for anything serious these days?
    • mrweasel 1 hour ago
      Perhaps not serious, but I think people gravitate towards older systems these days because they are easier to conceptualize. It's not unrealistic for a single person to have a complete grasp of e.g. the C64 and it's programming environment. DOS is similarly constraint, but also easier for you to form a more or less complete mental model around.

      Some people love computers and making them do weird stuff, older computers make certain tasks feel more manageable.

    • sedatk 2 hours ago
      Most computers in Turkey come with FreeDOS preinstalled because there's a law that states all computers must be sold with an operating system. FreeDOS turns out to be the cheapest and easiest.

      That's why you don't let people who have never touched a computer write tech laws. You get results like this.

      • Dwedit 2 hours ago
        The really weird case is where the computer isn't actually compatible with DOS, so they put in a locked-down Linux distro that emulates FreeDOS.
        • ronsor 2 hours ago
          Wasn't it Dell or HP that did this? IIRC it was FreeDOS-on-QEMU-on-X11-on-Linux.
      • unleaded 1 hour ago
        Those types of laws aren't all that bad.. they got us this: https://segaretro.org/Dottori_Kun
      • wk_end 2 hours ago
        Is there a reason they don't go with Ubuntu or something like that instead?
        • jordand 53 minutes ago
          Linux drivers and certification is a whole lot of extra work and complexity compared to FreeDOS. Years ago, Nettops were sold with FreeDOS where the components didn't support Linux that well.
        • prmoustache 2 hours ago
          I guess they don't want to get support's call. DOS looks like firmware for non techies.
    • wk_end 2 hours ago
      Who said anything about "serious"?

      (FWIW: I suspect there are more than a few old industrial control systems and such out there that are still running DOS, just because of an "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" attitude)

      • kjs3 1 hour ago
        My brother is in manufacturing. DOS is everywhere. Older things too (PDP-11? DG Nova? Seen both, semi-recently). Not just because "ain't broke, don't fix", but because when you have a cloth dying machine or brick forming machine you spent >US$5M for, that is often a bespoke install for your plant, you don't replace it because some guy who prolly slings Javascript all day sez "DOS is oooold, boomer".
    • kjs3 1 hour ago
      Because it's fun, at least for certain folks? Crazy, right?
    • gbin 2 hours ago
      The real question is "why not?" :)
      • spijdar 2 hours ago
        I think this PR is awesome, and I can totally see myself playing around with this at some point. Being able to create DOS executables of SDL projects is just ... cool!

        But I do wonder about the practicality. This would, I presume (never done DOS development, never touched a memory extender) only run on 386+ CPUs, and maybe more importantly, probably require a newer CPU than that to run anything non-trivial at acceptable performance. So I wonder how many "real DOS machines" this can practically target.

        Still, it is massively cool.

    • mikepurvis 2 hours ago
      Hacker News
    • jordand 1 hour ago
      There's a lot of interesting projects and even innovation going on making new games for old PCs/consoles. James Lambert and Kaze are doing fantastic work in the N64 space as one example (watch their videos on Youtube)
    • queuebert 2 hours ago
      There used to be stock exchanges running happily on DOS. Maybe there still are.
      • chaps 2 hours ago
        Worked at an exchange in 2007/2008 and... we had systems still running from the 80s. Mostly tape audit stuff.
      • BirAdam 1 hour ago
        Most use Linux now, and specifically RHEL. I did see some IBM z, but that was specifically for one old DB that handled oil pipeline stuff.
    • benatkin 1 hour ago
      SDL is written in C. So it can support it without too much trouble. And some people are compiling stuff to run on DOS. So it makes sense. And your objection doesn't hold any water.
    • alnwlsn 2 hours ago
      because you can
    • reaperducer 1 hour ago
      Uhm... excuse me? Why? Is there anyone even using DOS for anything serious these days?

      Translation: "Stop liking things I don't like!"

      • spankibalt 42 minutes ago
        I suppose it's an issue of ignorance; even IT veterans often don't know that DOS was, and still is, the driver of many highly specialized industry applications, or an OS running the software of individuals as well as small business owners around the world.